Pam Coronado-initiated thread on FB
Feb 8, 2013
I needed to start a new thread about the future and direction of remote
viewing. Arguing about the history and past is much like trying to drive the
car while staring into the rear view mirror. What I love about this group is
the intense passion we all bring to the table. We may not agree on certain
points (structure vs freestyle) but we all agree with wanting to educate the
world about the magic we all know as rv We just can't agree on the right
language.
Why aren't more studies being done and papers being written? What is the role of IRVA going forward? My goal is about understanding how it all works so that we can continue to improve how it works and go out into the world and do great work.
Lori Williams Amen and
amen!!! Perhaps that is the role of the 2nd generation of RVers, Pam. I used to
hear "So much can get done when no one worries about who gets the
credit.". But if we allow our egos to drown us, if we get bogged down in
"who's way is the right way" -- nothing will ever get accomplished
with RV. And we can do so much to help others, it would be a shame if that were
to happen.
Vanda Lavar Those are some very
good points Pam
Paul H. Smith I think one
of the reasons why the RV community is in the state it's in is because people
HAVEN'T been paying enough attention to history. First, I see people
re-re-reinventing the remote viewing wheel when a lot of what keeps getting
tried was already solved years ago. (My favorite example was when Prudence
Calabrese announced she had discovered a new kind of ideogram. I don't remember
exactly what she called it, but it was nothing more than the spontaneous
ideogram that is the core of Ingo Swann's CRV doctrine; but knowledge of it was
available all along -- people just weren't paying attention to it!) You just
have to get into the literature. Second, one of the reasons there is so much
disagreement over who did what to whom in the past is because everyone is happy
to believe his or her favorite remote viewing guru and _his_ or _her_ version
of history. But this history is not opaque. Memory errors don't have to be
taken as losing the facts forever. There are many clear-cut facts to be found
-- (Daz Smith,
for example, has found a lot of them. But you _can't_ just believe what someone
remembers -- because we all remember things differently, even when there is
ground truth to the matter. Real history is not relative. You have to get into
the documentation, and it is well worth the effort. How many here, for example,
have actually read "Mind Reach"? This is the book that started it all
as far as the public is concerned. Or the papers listed and often linked in the
IRVA Library? There's a lot to be had there. Sure we need to look to the
present and the future. But you shouldn't ignore the past or you're bound to
repeat all the same mistakes.
Okay, Pam – thanks for triggering my soapbox response!
Leigh Withrow I just received
my copy of "A World Without Secrets" and was watching it. I love
history, and I agree with you, it's hard to know everything about something you
want to try and NEED to try, for a purpose or out of necessity. Dowsing is
something I've seen my father do since I was in grade school and he taught me
how it feels to find what you're looking for. Interesting that you found
yourself almost reinventing the wheel with dowsing, as it does have a very rich
history from the time of Herodotus, 444 BC - "A World Without
Secrets".
Leigh Withrow Some of the
best things have also been found completely by accident. Having someone try to
learn something new by DOING it, could very well lead to a discovery of some
aspect that no one expected - Something scientists live for - a discovery of
something new! You never know. Never say never. Always keep experimenting.
The problem with people today is shortcuts -everyone wants everything today -
now.
RV takes time and the past is So important - and we have major problems because
people are learning the craft and going out and reteaching, selling services
without enough knowledge of what they are doing and damaging it.For example
Ingos original training took as much as two years, each student writing lecture
notes then having to write papers one each stage and how they work - this type
of thing. There was care an attention to the transfer of knowledge in a proper
format. today people want to be RV masters inw weeks - and it jsut aint
happening.
every day i see rv people doing projects using bad targets, bad structure and all
kinds of things that have been documented by years of trial and thousands of
double blind experiments and the correct way found - yet ignored because they
just have not done the research, found of been shown the previous work.
The true fact is - there are hardly ANY respectable remote viewing projects and
examples free of error or controversy since the military/espionage days of rv
to even use as sound examples of remote viewing - why - because things like
history are ignored and protocol blown. A skeptic could and would rip most of
the projects I know of to shreds.
The history of remote viewing is what defines what it is today - and we as
users are contributing to the eroding of the good work done so far by people
like ingo, Joe, pat, hella and many, many more.
I would say - YES the future is key - but with one well trained eye always
looking at the history of RV, ts genesis because there is SO much valuable data
there - in the Star Gate archives alone its a treasure trove of amazingily,
what works, what doesn't, who makes the best viewers, the best numbers and
structures for operational teams, what makes optimal targets for rv, best times
to view and so much more its all there - all researched using the best
intuitive minds of our generation - yet im guessing less than 1% of the rv
population have read ANY of this work.
Leigh
Withrow - yes you can find most things by accident and over time - but Why
do this if say for example its been done already and with one of the worlds
most scientifically tested psychics (ingo). why not learn from his work - and
try to move on from there instead of replication wasting time and effort?
Leigh Withrow I did Not
say you can find MOST things by accident, Daz. Just to be clear about that. It
is interesting how many great things have been discovered by accident. I know
this because I am a student of history. And I am NOT doomed to repeat it. There
is NO substitute for putting in the work and the hours to learn. And I know
about "standing on the shoulders of giants". BUT, we are each unique
and bring a unique perspective to everything we do. Since we ARE, each and
every one of us, unique, we would be well advised to make use of that instead of
have it divide us.
Who should i report it too?
Simon Turnbull The abstract
was titled: Is remote viewing the way of the future or is it destined to be
forever a niche area of interest? ... I then discussed how psychics needed to
be brought into the fold ... I went off into several tangents, but that was the
core issue I felt needed to be addressed then, and guess what? ... It still
needs addressing ...
hey wouldn't that be a fun thread - naked viewing pics...lol
Daz Smith maybe we could do a
naked viewer pic posting for charity or something
when they stopped measuring time
and that basically people communicate telepathically with no need for sound
and there isn't so much mental/spiritual noise around (none at all)
Nathan Peters A lot of
the scientists who have/do research RV are "hard" science types.
Possibly a better approach would be from a biological standpoint. A doctor will
probably know what medicine a patient should be prescribed, but will monitor
their progress to see if the dosage or medicine type is working as expected. A
"this has to work 100%, 100% of the time" attitude is great for engineering
but not so much for natural processes. Is there anything that could be taken
from the biological sciences that would be a good fit for RV?
There also seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding about what remote viewing
was created for, and what it is. This addresses the psychic vs RV argument I
have read. Being psychic and doing remote viewing are essentially the same
thing -- opening one's consciousness to nonlocal awareness. The difference is
not that there is a technique of doing it, but that there is a technique for
evaluating it.
The SRI people, the PEAR people, the Mind Science people, Mobius, and all the
other research groups got interested in remote viewing not because of any
viewing technique but because we had worked out how to objectively verify and
analyse nonlocal perception data. What makes remote viewing different is that,
properly done -- correct conditions of blindness and randomization, etc. --
assures that the data is sourced nonlocally. Analysis of such data allows one
to discern what is nonlocal and what is not. It allows the detection of
performance patterns. In remote viewing one can objectively verify the
information. The information can be shown to be accurate whatever one believes.
I hope that is clear, because it is very important.
The way to go forward is to refine our understanding of the process. Once one
knows one has a system for getting the pure stuff the question becomes how can
I improve the take? Meditation is clearly one answer to that. How can I maximize
connection with the target in the informational domain? The role of numinosity
addresses that. What is the role of entropy? We are beginning to get some
insights on that. How can I build a viewer profile, so that I know what a
viewer is good at? This is absolutely essential in applied work. At the deepest
level, how does it all work, and where does it our understanding of the
universe? There's lots to do.
BTW, relative to applied work, I have asked my wonderful webmaster, Beth
Alexander, to put up The Alexandria Project video as well as two of the formal
papers, and the book. Taken together they represent a case study of an
applications project.
remote viewing facebook thread1
Trish Woolaver Thank you Jon, much appreciated. I love the site, excellent reference resource - great job putting it all together! Thanks again.
Pam Coronado Patty, thanks for sharing your point of view. I've heard that argument before, and each time, I find it equally fascinating. If a viewer or psychic is wasting time, talent and energy on missing person work and therefore getting lost in the dark, then that's exactly where I hope to get stuck. If turning a blind eye to tragedy is somehow taking the high road, I will choose the low road each and every time.
Patty Gallagher no wasnt saying that. AT ALL. Sorry you read that into it. I am simply remarking on the nature of remote viewing. it is more than clairvoyance. it is a trained method of clairvoyance. i was saying remote viewing isnt only or simply clairvoyance.. i practice four different kinds of divination, most of the time i have only anecdotal type of feedback. Thats why i appreciate remote viewing, it allows me to learn as a psychic, and not simply be led by memories and imagination. I think remote viewings best application is in this kind of training that leads to self awareness and better psychic skills generalized. as a trained crver i'm sure you have had that experience. People need to come to a consensus definition of what remote viewing is, and i am offering this as my opinion of what it means, and is. no psychic, or any person for that matter, has ever wasted their time when they were helping anyone. Just so yu know how i feel about helping people. And yes, i do think that one must be very cautious when involved in challenging situations.
Simon Turnbull On the subject of feedback I have developed a system that works for me ... I do indulge on occasion an apparently useless exercise where I get invited to Skeptics Conferences and debate with them the value of the psychic process ... I do this because I feel someone needs to take care of the poor souls .. Anyways, over the years in order to substantiate, albeit anecdotally, the results of my work for media purposes, skeptics and otherwise, whenever a client returns for a second visit, I ask them to write down on a specially designed form, everything that came true from their first session ... 99% agree ... in fact most can't wait to tell me, as it forms the basis for recommendations to their friends ... The point is that over the years I have amassed files of hundreds of these 'testimonials' that show something is going on that is not 'hoaxing' or resulting from exaggeration on my part ... they sign and date these documents and include their contact details; they also give me permission to use them (some ask me to change the name when I do so) ... I also record on my computer every single session and have a sizeable collection of those as well ... I burn every reading on to a cd for each client (only takes five minutes), and that proves very useful sometimes when clients lose their cd and want another copy posted out, as they want to recall exactly what was said at the session ...
Patty Gallagher what type of readings do you do simon?
Simon Turnbull Generally I do the basic human condition type readings; love, money, career, family, travel, etc., (not necessarily in that order) ... I also do a lot of business readings, because I specialise in timing of events ... I developed a system using tarot that allows accurate prediction in days, weeks, months, or years, which most psychics avoid doing, for fear of being wrong ... I do a lot of work by phone with people all over the world; clients who have originally seen me in person but have moved away ... Been doing this since 1975 semi pro, and 1979 pro, so I've taken a long time to develop my style ... I use remote viewing for special clients, who do pay me a lot more, as I can spend a day or more on an issue, but RV is not an everyday affair ... I trained myself with RV by reading all the literature ... I have nearly every book published on the subject ... David Morehouse's was my first in recent times, of course had the Puthoff/Targ book (s) in the 70's (Russell was surprised when I handed him my old copy for him to sign) ... how I go on .. I love this stuff ... Meeting Skip put me over the edge ... sorry about the ramble ...
Teresa Marshall Frisch Simon, have you considered becoming credentialed as a Life Coach?
Simon Turnbull No, I'm flat out like a lizard drinking as it is ... Maybe later ...
Sandy Frost Simon, I agree about Skip. His book is a must read. The DVD that comes with it is mind-blowing.
Ghg Mitte Very good point, Pam. Been getting the strong feeling lately that RV is ready to make another leap in clarity and advancement of technique, study protocols, purpose or role, relevancy and new branding even - within the community and with the public. The focus and intent you speak of Pam, the concrete steps you mention, are necessary to further this along..RV is going to take on a new relevancy and life I believe...Be much more broadly and deeply understood, with expanded applications...Also more integrated because of the clarity on how it fits into the whole package of fact finding, investigating, human understanding and potential.